Labour Minister skewered over John Healey's 'hypocritical' U-turn on defence spending: 'Isn't he a complete fraud?!'

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The Chancellor has shelved his own target of reaching three per cent of defence spending by 2030

Business Secretary Jonathan Reynolds has been shut down in a fiery clash over Chancellor John Healey's "hypocritical" U-turn on defence spending.

Speaking to GB News, Mr Reynolds told host Camilla Tominey that "the fact that John Healey is the Chancellor tells you everything about the Government's commitment to defence spending".

Pressing the Labour MP on whether Mr Healey should resign, Camilla argued: "We've got John Healey, who resigned over defence spending, who said, I am resigning from my position because the Government won't get to three per cent of GDP by 2030 now accepting that the Government won't get to that figure.

"And Andy Burnham was moving the goalposts on Wednesday by saying we're only going to get to it by 2035 if we still aren't getting to three per cent of GDP by 2030. John Healey should resign, shouldn't he?"

Mr Reynolds responded: "Let me just say, first of all, the Prime Minister came to power, and since that moment, he's cut taxes, he's cut business rates for pubs, he's cut people's energy bills as well, and he's also capped bus fares.

"So no, I don't accept that the tax burden is going up in this Government. We've made some clear movements early on to show that direction of travel when it comes to the Budget, that's where you set those things out. He has not moved away from the target."

The Labour MP argued that such significant sums of money "cannot be moved around" outside of key events such as the Budget and spending review.

He said: "The fundamental target is the 2035, 3.5 per cent of GDP on defence spending, that is our NATO commitment. The trajectory to that covers the three per cent, but that is the principal target.

"Sums of money cannot be moved around outside of these big events, they happen at spending reviews, they happen at Budgets.

"But the fact that John Healey is the Chancellor tells you everything about the Government's commitment to defence spending, which, by the way, increased substantially since Labour came to power."

Pushing back on Mr Reynolds's defence of Mr Healey, Camilla told the business secretary: "John Healey resigned because of the Government's inability to get to three per cent of GDP by 2030.

"So isn't he a complete fraud, being Chancellor, refusing to honour the three per cent of GDP by 2030?"

Mr Reynolds rejected Camilla's argument, telling GB News: "John will set out his speech on growth next week, that will cover the aspirations he has for the British economy that will therefore deliver the envelope he needs to do that level of defence spending.

"But as I say again, these are not sums of money you move around week to week, they are fundamental changes.

"But look, the Government's record is one of increased defence spending, and it did so by making some difficult decisions."

Defending the Chancellor further, Mr Reynolds assured that Mr Healey will "set out the route" to "reach the fundamental target".

He said: "Already we have a situation where the country is spending substantially more a year on defence than it was when this Government came to power after the election in 2024, and what John is saying is he wants to set out the route to get to that fundamental target, which is where the country needs to be.

"But it's also about what we spend the money on, and for me, that's also got to be on British jobs, British innovation, taking advantage of the brilliant things we've got in this country."

Pressing Mr Reynolds, Camilla then asked: "Okay, so you accept that John Healy has moved the goalposts?"

He hit back: "No, I do not. I know that John is deeply committed to defence spending. He is going to set out that target and pathway, and look, if he wasn't going to do that, he would not be the Chancellor. The Prime Minister himself said in parliament, that is why John Healey is the Chancellor."

Camilla told the MP: "I just want some acceptance that John Healey resigned over not getting to three per cent of GDP by 2030 and is now committing to three per cent of GDP by 2035.

"So he's resigned over something, he's now doubled down on an extra five years on that defence spending, and that will strike the GB News audiences extremely hypocritical?"

Mr Reynolds concluded: "The point is, there is a target way beyond the three per cent. The pathway to getting to that 2035 figure obviously gets you to three per cent, but he will set that out in a wider speech alongside what he is doing on the economy and how we can deliver that."